A.L. HU: In looking at some of your work, what strikes me as interesting is that you are really building architecture that’s for the masses, and doing so in a way that counters some of the really fast urbanization happening in China. What made you decide to design with that process in mind?

LI HU: Well, you know how architects work – looking back it’s always kind of accidental what you get to work on. But I can’t deny that I do believe that working on buildings that have meaning for the public is more important for me to spend my time on. Because architecture is an exhausting profession, I think that you have to pick the right battle. That’s what I feel in the society in China, which is not unique; if you look at it globally, today we are facing a massive crisis in humanity, in human spirit. For me architecture is a tool that can send a message – or be an expression of what I believe, which perhaps is idealism.

A.L. HU: In a way it’s like imagining how the future could be in light of all these crises, and then designing that.

LI HU: Right.

A.L. HU: You worked in New York City for a while.

LI HU: For 10 years. I graduated from Rice and then worked briefly in Princeton. I moved to New York City, and was here with Steven Holl for 10 years, 5 of which as a partner of the firm.

A.L. HU: Do you find that your experience of working in New York City influences the way that you design now?

LI HU: Absolutely, and not only by working in New York City. I’ve been telling people that I grew up in New York mentally, although I was over 20 years old. I was lucky to develop that in New York City. There is a great energy and spirit, and the sense of generosity and sharing. I always think New York City is a great model for urbanity, and I’m lucky I happened to be there at that moment in the late ‘90s, which to me was a more exciting time.

A.L. HU: It’s changed a little bit now.

LI HU: It was a more authentic New York City.

A.L. HU: And as someone who came to New York for grad school in 2014, I hear a lot of people say that. And I’m always just wondering, “What was that like?”

LI HU: It’s quite a different city now.

A.L. HU: A lot of your projects are also about bringing nature back to urban spaces. In the studio, it can become kind of a cliché or a trope as in, “We’re building trees on this.” How do you incorporate nature into your projects in a way that’s more a human scale, or something that doesn’t seem as clichéd?

LI HU: I get what you mean. You see lots of buildings – not just from students – but also ones being built in which trees or nature is used almost as a decoration. Of course it’s becoming cliché and is actually a burden for maintenance. However, for us nature is really part of the public space – especially in a place where the environmental crisis is such a huge one.

So to me it’s very natural to do that, and plus I love plants. If you come to our office in Beijing, it’s filled with plants. You have to love something before you do it. So you have to understand how plants work and what they want. I even have a friend in Taiwan who’s been telling me that you can talk to plants. Plants have spirit; it’s a form of life. But whatever you do, don’t take it as part of a decoration or a skin or simply a message. It’s really part of social life, so you have to do that very carefully – where you put them, how you incorporate them.

A.L. HU: And give that an intention.

LI HU: Yes, so they can live their life with your public life.

A.L. HU: So it’s almost like you’re building a space for the plants, too.

LI HU: Well, it’s a coexistence.

A.L. HU: I’m also struck by the different scales of your projects because your firm came up with the modular HEX system, which I imagine could be deployed across an entire landscape. And then you also have skyscrapers. Do you find that you like working at one scale more than the other, or do you see one being more successful than the other?

LI HU: That’s an interesting notion. This is makes our practice quite different than some other young practices. For me, scale makes no difference and programming makes no difference. It’s all part of this process of creation. And I feel excited to work on different things at different scales. But you know, a city is a house and a house can be a city. We’re also actually working on a house for the first time – which is rare because most Western architects start with the house. I finally got a chance to work on a house, so that’s very funny.

But I do feel lucky to be able to be exposed to the challenges across different scales, and the diversity of the types of projects. Lots of people ask us, “So what do you guys specialize in?” And that’s the question I hate the most because I say, “Not really anything. But we can do everything.”

A.L. HU: Nothing, but all.

LI HU: In fact, I would like to work on something I haven’t worked on. I would love to work on an airport because I’m in the airport so often that I want to make a better airport. This desire comes from your dissatisfaction with the things you see, and that you want to do something that’s better.

A.L. HU: That’s a really interesting take on it because you do hear a lot about, “Oh, this architect specializes in this type of work,” which is one way to think about it.

LI HU: Well, there is certainly an advantage to being specialized in something because it makes work more efficient and you can become an expert. But I like the fresh challenge of certain things, it’s like art. It’s like all forms of art – in the end it is one thing, your expression. It’s all connected.

A.L. HU: I was also listening to some other interviews that you have done; you were talking about how your firm does a lot of research in addition to actual design and construction. What are you researching right now, if I may ask?

LI HU: Research is a very important part of OPEN’s work. Before my wife and I officially launched the practice into building projects, we had been spending 10 years or more on research – urban research, how to design for the masses, the ideal mass customization, and largely urban problems. I think doing 10 to 15 years of research before practicing prepared us to think about things from different angles.

In the beginning years of the practice, when we were not so busy, we spent a lot of time making up urban projects – like rethinking the 2nd Ring Road of Beijing for instance, and the problem of the wall being a division of the city. So we’ve been working on those kinds of speculative projects. For me that’s a really fun part, where you have total freedom and can be very idealistic.

We are very busy now, but we still continue the effort. Some of the effort involves moving into teaching, as we’re teaching at Tsinghua University. And at the time I was running Studio-X, I started a project called the Post-bubble Urbanism, where we looked into the problem of the city we inherited out of the boom – the instant cities people made in China – and studies what the challenges, the problems, and the potentials are. Many problems are the potential for the next creation.

So the effort is still continuing. However, most of the research we do now is part of a project. As I mentioned earlier, I like to take on new challenges, to do things we’ve never done. And how do you get yourself ready for that? You do research.

A.L. HU: Right, exactly.

LI HU: Because every day you’re facing unknowns, every day you’re looking for answers. So that’s research.

A.L. HU: And you can’t be an expert on everything.

LI HU: No, no, no. But you can become expert if you work on it.

A.L. HU: So when you returned to China after working in New York City, what was the biggest difference that you saw between New York City and China?

LI HU: Well, China is a big concept, and it varies from city to city. And certainly it’s very different from New York City. There are cities trying to copy New York City. China is building several new cities that, even in their propaganda, are trying to be the New York City of the East for instance – and fails all the time. I don’t think you can copy any city. And between the cities are vast differences that you can’t even describe.

However, I do start to see more similarities. It’s all about human beings. Cities are made for human beings working together, living together. And for instance, despite the very different looks, Beijing and New York have underlying similarities in the passion for culture. Although I also think both cities are changing in very different ways – and sometimes in negative ways.

A.L. HU: And very quickly, too.

LI HU: Very quickly, too, as a result of commercialism, extreme commercialism and the flow of international money. But the past remains an inspiration and the hope is there that we can work on it.

A.L. HU: Do you think that the public spaces in your projects that have a lot of nature and are places for people to interact are a way to counter the rapid commercialization of cities?

LI HU: I hope this does in a way bring people together, bring some kind of drama to the urban life. I love drama, movies, you know. That’s very hidden in our projects. So the project can create an unexpected drama that makes you happy.

I think there are ways that we can help to reinvent how we live together, how we can share resources together, and how we see nature – even how we see each other, and how you see yourself.

A.L. HU: Especially in these times, right?

LI HU: Exactly. And these are the main things I’m going to talk about in the lecture tonight.

A.L. HU: Yes. We’re looking forward to listening to that. Thanks for talking to us today. It was very inspirational and enlightening.